Hi everyone. I have a question about stitch variations. If a book describes a stitch, as say for example, pea stitch variation 3, would that same stitch appear in every book under that name or is it just the author's choice to number the variations?

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The above reference book is detailed on Needlelace Sitches group. See Fig 756, 37th stitch for the Point d'Angleterre. You should however note that very few of the stitches have been allocated names, merely numbers. (Also an invaluable reference source. The printed version is a true rarity but I received a copy as a gift from my husband. I do however much prefer the book of Pat's as the layout and instructions are superb. Pat is a member of this site should you wish to contact her. As there are not many books available on NL, I always follow the advice of a friend who is a teacher of NL and that is "always get it whilst you can".

Well. Names are confusing. we all know that. And I am not an expert on needle lace, just a fellow traveler.

Hi Julianna, my last entry should have had your name attached to it. You indicated you wished to see a photo of the Point d'Angleterre to compare with the design you are working on and this is the only one I could think of showing you as it is in an open forum etc.

Hi Lorelei, no offence was intended towards you, or anyone else. I admitted I too was initially confused by the stitch name and it was not until I saw the actual design that I could actually discern what Julianna was referring to. I was soley trying to help Julianna with her problem.

I actually have that book copied. let me look at it again. I find everyone's input valuable! I tell you that needlelace is a subject that has me quite confused and it makes me nearly mad as there aren't too many textile arts subjects that I haven't tried and at least been able to grasp pretty well. I will understand this better i tell you! I know it will take years (a lifetime probably) to master but I'm so grateful for everyone's input. And all of it will come in handy for sure. it's also nice to know I'm not crazy in that everyone agrees that this art has lots of unclear definitions of stitch types or at least names for them. It is a good excuse to buy more books on the subject :) you all have been doing this for a good while and Lorelei I have used your pages I can't tell you how many times! i'm saving everything so much so that i just recently bought an external hardrive for my computer. HA!


No offence taken. I was apologizing for sticking my comments in, when they weren't carefully researched.


All the fuss and difficulty of conflicting names for things will not discourage you, I hope. Once a student learns how the basic structure of  needle lace works, what remains is just practice to get really good tension and neatness in the working. If you look through our photographs I think you will see that more of us are doing our own modern designs than those trying to duplicate antique models. Our own modern work is easier to do and can be made at any scale. And with our own modern work, we don't have to worry about rules, about whether stitches go from right to left or lef to right, or about whether the needle is held with the point facing towards the lacemaker or away from the lacemaker.  So I would advise just getting started. Set up one of my tutorials - the bookmark or the leaf -- to learn how to manage the outline threads, and to practice a few stitches. After that, the sky is the limit. You can go the route of making perfect versions of antique needle lace styles, or design your own pieces in the modern style.

I totally agree. I can see how it would make sense to a modern motif or design first before delving into the old laces. i did a couple of the traditional flowers and think I'm going to try a design of my own. i was practicing the order of which to lay pieces on top of each other etc first as i have some basic experience with stumpwork pieces. I'm not discouraged at all! In fact more determined! and I see the trick really is the evenness of the stitches. Does anyone know what a good repeat number would be for the 4 hole bud? I would like to have several evenly spaced throughout. I will try one with just evenly spaced holes first i think. So excited waited on my book of Catherine Barley after that i see i need Pat's book. I've been looking through evertone's pics over and over again which just keeps me excited to learn more! Oh, and I welcomed your input as well Lorelei as I actually thought the twisted buttonhole was the translation too and when I put the needle trhu the tip of the twisted buttonhole and sewed it down to the base it actually made a cute tiny bobble so I will remember that for future uses as well!

Hi Julianna, much will depend upon motif size and thread thickness etc. If I were to do this, I'd trace the motif onto tracing paper and play around with the positioning of the 4 holes first. WHen used in isolation this pattern gives a delicate effect. Conversely, when multiples are used, the resulting effect can be quite heavy. Creating different effects adds to the journey. Sounds as though you might get the book bug, wait till the thread bug hits you .....it becomes an obsession!

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